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48 comments:
:)
I wrote mine out because I will forget the details and I don't wanna. And I shared it on my blog because it was an easy c/p.
AND I love reading them. Because I guess I'm nosey like that. But only if they're quick reads. And not too detailed...
I love them, even if they are TMI and long reads. Birth is always a miracle. No matter how it comes about, planned, drawn out, precipitous, whatever!
"We can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see."
lol i was just having this discussion with my husband the other day...I think of Eve in her excitement of "bringing forth a man, the Lord!" Which of course we know was not the Lord, but in anticipation of the promise she knew the miracle of new life. Even though the promise has already been fulfilled I think with each birth we feel the same miracle take place that Eve, Sarah, Hannah, and indeed Mary did...and of course all other women in history.
To share the story of the emerging of new life is the most miraculous and intimate story possible for a woman and to share it gives us membership into a club that only those who have gone through pregnancy and birth can ever understand....
But most importantly, birth fulfills the greatest miracle of the creation of women, the ability to bear new life...its like a man sharing when he is able to work hard enough to put a roof over his family's head or buy a new car or bring home his first kill...birth is the ultimate service to our Lord and our family.
Yes, I love birth stories :)
As a woman without children, I can say that birth stories are amusing, but always really personal and usually contain pretty disgusting details. If you aren't VERY close to the person you're talking to, maybe keep the "I tore 6 inches" stories to yourself.
I love birth stories. That must be the reason I like shows like Baby Story. Even after what would be the most horrific birth for me, I still get joyfully weepy when I see the baby. I even liked the show before I had kids....but now I'm kind of like an armchair quarterback--"No, no, no....don't agree to do that....there's no reason to do THAT yet!" or "Stop the stupid counting to 10 already--don't you know that is driving her crazy and she can't possibly concentrate on pushing!" and so on.
by golly, it's unanimous. So now, I want to read all of y'all's birth stories...
And by "too detailed", I'm referring exactly to lengths and start and end points of tears. I knew the description of my tear with Callie as it was in my chart, but I very intentionally did not ever look it up or ask for clarification. I accidentally ran across it the other day, said something to the husband, who told me exactly what mine was like. I still wish I didn't know. (thankfully, I did not have a repeat.)
Jody: Baby Story = days of depression for me. I can't watch it anymore. I scream, "No! Why? Stop!" at the TV. My husband actually asked me to stop watching it for this very reason :)
Melrose: I always feel so humbled when I hear birth stories. I seldom want to ask more because I feel like I'm looking at a woman's soul and I don't want to ask too much. Before I had my first child I had a breakdown - I finally GOT the depth of my sin because now I would face the pangs of childbirth with which I had been cursed. Not that childbirth is necessary to "get" Eve's sin. But, for me, it was - and it hurt.
Gauntlets: You read the most bizarre things. I still don't get that play.
lisa, funny you bring that up...after my first's birth i remember being very angry at how badly it hurt...I somehow thought if I was "in control enough" it wouldnt...lol. The next was even worse...and this time, well let's just say I didnt know such pain existed. Talk about sin in your face.
Steve said my (very short) tear from our first was shaped like a lightening bolt. I've always thought that was neat - kind of like something you'd find on a superhero's chest. Only, in a different spot. :)
Melrose, kinda makes you appreciate what Christ went through, no?
Gauntlets, :D
The weird thing about birth stories is that although they give the play-by-play, they can never express the pain and fear. I was also very angry after my first birth, having prepped for months to believe I'd be able to "manage" the pain. And of course, the difference between us and Christ is that we deserve it.
R - this piggybacks on your "we can know the play-by-play" comment.
I just got back from a mom meet-up with women in a different locale. I had never met any of them before. It was a hodge-podge group - nursing, bottle-feeding, hospital births, homebirths, hippie, platinum blondes. One of the ladies there had young twin babies. She nonchalantly told me they were delivered by C-Section and we spoke about "twin stuff" and I mostly just nodded and smiled (in a good way). She was pleasant and her babies were beautiful. I found myself looking at these little guys and being awed that in a few months I too would be back at "square one". My arms ached to hold a baby again.
A woman behind us was talking and explaining that she is due in a few days. Her doctor has scheduled her C-Section and this mom-to-be was talking about her situation. She'd made her peace, it wasn't her first choice, but this is how life goes. I looked over and found the mother of twins crying quietly.
I guess sometimes we just get the blips and short-version in exchanges. On the outside everything looks tidy and uneventful. But, it was a good reminder to me that people outside the family often don't know what does down in the delivery room. And, even when someone says, nonchalantly, it was fine - it's best to check your views at the door. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was all wrong. And maybe she doesn't need me to tell her that.
Someone gave me this book when I was due with my first. Not that I bought any of it (and it resulted in an argument--I should have been more charitable). But talk about setting yourself up for failure/disappointment/despair!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_8?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=supernatural+childbirth&sprefix=supernat
(And what a misnomer! I guess it wouldn't hurt at all if you're not delivering a natural baby, flesh and blood!)
Birth stories are the female version of war stories.
I go back and forth about writing down my birth story for my first delivery... I don't want my daughter to think it was her fault I had such a rough time of it. I think there are probably some medical things that are necessary to relay, but she probably doesn't need to know the lot of it; as such, I don't talk about it much any more.
Katy,
I've never heard of that book.
And, I confess to being an optimist when it comes to childbirth.
Somewhere between: "Yes, you could die.." & "You can do this girlfriend!"
I understand this annoys people, so I shut up about it unless asked. It's hard to straddle the line between "our bodies were made to do this" and "curse of Eve".
I think the review of the book written by Z. Velasco summed up the dangers of books like this.
Mrs. Hume - If you mean that it's one big whizzing contest, there's some truth to that. Too bad, considering men and women survive both only by the grace of God.
A few quotes I read on birth to share and ponder....
“Giving birth is not an isolated event in a person’s life. A woman births with both her mind and her body and participates in the attitudes toward childbearing of her culture and her family.” –Rahima Baldwin
“…birth is the pinnacle where women discover the courage to become mothers…” –Anita Diamant
“…Birth is a rite of passage of women. Their journey should be honored, their rights should be fiercely protected, and their stories should be shared.” –Marcie Macari
Debbie S
I think our Lord really meant it when He said a woman "...no longer remembers the anguish..." - I've torn on both births (not terribly, but still, torn flesh is torn flesh) but I can't say I remember horrible pain. I remember the pain of heartburn, lousy sleep, and nursing aversion w/our oldest after DD#2's birth, but labor & delivery? Not so much. It was a LOT of work - that's what I remember most. (DD#2 is about five months old.)
HFox: I know what you mean. I call that the holy mindwipe :) It usually takes effect at two weeks post-partum for me. Barring an ultra-sore bottom...
This is why fear and worry are so gross. Even when God takes the pain the fear always lingers like mildew.
When I am afraid, I put my trust in you. Ps 56:3
It's funny how being pregnant gives way to these conversations. I never heard many birthing stories until I was pregnant with our first (now 10 months old!). People I hardly knew were telling me all about them. That was kind of an odd time to be hearing these (sometimes horrific!) stories- never asked if I wanted to hear them; they just shared.
Katy, that is completely insane. COMPLETELY INSANE.
Mrs. Hume, yes. They're just too mind-blowing not to tell.
Debbie--thanks for the quotes, but I have to give a huge general YUCK to Anita Diamant. :P
Happy Fox & Lisa, didn't I just explain like five posts down that the mindwipe totally doesn't work for me? :(
Leah, I do think it's a little weird to assault a first time pregnant lady with them. Why not just be encouraging? If she wants details, she'll ask.
ok, im going to be a complete dork and ask something that I've already been told the answer to a hundred times but for some reason it keeps resurfacing during conversations like the above comments...
Upon the reminder that we deserve the terrible pain we feel in labor...
is it wrong to try and avoid it? Like with use of an epidural?
I have to be honest. All three of my kids have been born at home and each birth has been progressively more dangerous/painful. I thought my second labor was bad because he got stuck and I had to labor upside-down while 8 1/2cm to get him unstuck. But as I pushed out my 3rd I was sobbing and screaming thinking that I was breathing my last the pain was so overpowering...well yea, guess it hurts when the baby is trying to blaze it's own trail out!!!
I know the pain of labor, I know what it's SUPPOSED to feel like (from my first uncomplicated homebirth)...and if that was how it felt every time sure it sucks but it's LABOR! But then I know how it feels when it's wrong, very wrong and you know what? I dont ever want to feel that way again. But maybe I'm supposed to...I know I deserve it...help?
Melrose...
I'm torn (hehe) on this. (BTW, no,I don't think someone who opts for an epidural is avoiding what she deserves). Strictly speaking of safety/what's best for mom and baby:
Some moms can't relax because of the pain or fear of pain, so labor can take a lot longer and could result in problems for either person involved. So maybe an ep. is a good option.
I, personally, if there were problems, would WANT to feel what's going on, so I could take doc's directions. I think it would terrify me to be paralyzed and not feel the baby moving down and out. Although, to be honest, it was only the latest that I actually felt moving through (very strange feeling, that). The contractions have always been worse than the crowning, etc.
Plus, there's the whole sluggish baby not nursing...
But maybe if pain is so bad you CAN'T take doc/midwife's directions, it doesn't matter...
I do think epidurals are useful in some situations. You just have to know when those situations are (and before that window for getting an ep. has passed).
Melrose, if it's ok to take an aspirin for a headache, it's ok to have an epidural or demerol or whatever the heck kind of essential oil some hippie claims will help during childbirth. All pain is part of the curse, and Gilead is not reprimanded for its balms. When deciding on any course of treatment, the patient must take the side effects into consideration. (Incidentally, another great way to have a bad breastfeeding initiation is for the baby to spend that precious, alert first half hour of life racing to the hospital in an ambulance.)
I also feel like I've reached the point in my career where I'm ready for an epidural, but I have a history of missing the opportunity before anyone even offered. :P
And even if you do have an epidural or a narcotic or whatever, you're still going to hurt.
I've submitted to an epidural for three out of my four deliveries, and I'd like to address the impression that a girl misses out on what she deserves, should she use one. The whole everything still hurts plenty, but it hurts differently and at different times. Let that be your comfort, and go ahead. ;)
Melrose, if you'd like to have the details you know where to find me. :)
If a doctor you trust tells you that for your next birth an epidural would help them to turn the baby (or intervene in some way that they need you more "relaxed" for), then that seems pretty compelling to me.
Here's what I just read on epidurals:
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/epidural.html
http://www.acog.org/publications/patient_education/bp086.cfm
The ACOG pamphlet doesn't address risk to babies.
I've avoided epidurals bc I don't find the evidence compelling that they won't harm my baby somehow or complicate my birth. I know women who birthed fine with them; the baby works just fine.
In general I tend to think it's wiser to just deal with the pain. I find it to be humbling and an important part of the process that God so ordained. Often He gives us gift within curse. Some would say in this case that's the baby. But I happen to believe that He gives me something - perhaps comfort or greater trust in Him - in my labor.
But, if five babies down the road I find it hard staying on the CSPP horse due to childbirth pain - then I would consider an epidural. (I consider this unlikely, but I am not smug. I withstand suffering by the grace of God - not my awesome pain threshold or iron clad will).
I see wisdom in Katy's statement that she'd want to feel what was going on with her body. That said, you may be in a situation with your next birth where it's better for you AND the baby for you to get an epidural and for you NOT to feel what the doctor may have to do to deliver your baby safely.
My husband and I just had a great conversation at the kitchen table. He asked me some questions I found helpful/clarifying.
The point I wish to clarify in my previous statement is that we ALL try to make pain more bearable in labor. Either by breathing, positioning, etc. or a chemical approach. And unless we go back to "deep sleep" birthing where we're gassed into oblivion, we'll all feel some discomfort/pain.
So, no I don't think it's wrong to dodge pain. I think much can be gained from confronting it with no chemical intervention (in a typical assumed-low risk delivery). But, each woman knows how she labors and where she is in her level of comfort with more "natural" or medical pain management methods and their possible/perceived risks to her and baby.
Lisa--
I know what I gain from the toughing it out approach to labor and delivery--confidence. I am not a self-confident person, and for me, it is the ultimate "I did it!" If nothing else goes right in the 6 weeks or more after birth, then I can recall what I was able to handle during the birth and think to myself, "If I can do THAT with God's help, then I can get through the next 3 hours of this sleepless night with only His help, too."
I love labor and delivery stories too- partly because my own experience has made me finally (joyfully) begin to understand this verse:
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. Romans 8:18
And on the epidural issue:
Genesis 3: 16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
Just like it is not wrong for us to try to avoid the male/female power struggle that sin has created, nor it is wrong to lessen the toil that is required to till the ground (by using machines and killing weeds), it is not wrong to use God's blessings of modern medicine to avoid this pain. It is not more or less deserved than any suffering we experience- headaches, broken bones, death- we deserve them all, but God is gracious.
So argues a woman who had 2 naturally, progressively much worse, then prayerfully 'gave in' to the epidural for number 3... and 4, and 5, and praises God for His great mercy every time!
My husband quoted Gen. 3:16 to me when I was pregnant with our first. I told him that as soon as he gave up air conditioning (Gen. 3:19, "by the sweat of your brow") in his office then I would listen to him about pain. ;)
I did manage to make it through the blessedly short labor without an epidural.
Melrose, I'm with Rebekah. Especially in your case. You are not embracing the fall by taking an epidural; you're compensating for it.
Emily also makes a great point. We don't consider it sin when a man uses tools (be they animals, hand-held hoes, or electric saws) in tilling the earth, do we?
>> ... as soon as he gave up air conditioning in his office ...
Love it!
Hey ladies, interesting conversation! Melrose, about your most recent question I do feel compelled to add...
While I have zero children thus far and should probably keep my trap shut, I do agree with these other girls who say epidurals are a-ok and that avoiding excessive, unnecessary pain is totally fine and understandable.
The curse will still exist whether we feel the brunt of it 24-7 or not. Just because we don't feel it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Also, as far as the "deserving" language...Christ took on all that we deserved. So we don't have to beat our chest and make sure we darn-well get what we deserve! Part of the beauty of being a Christian is that we DON'T get what we deserve. He took on our sin, our curse, our pain...so have those kiddos and know that just because it only hurts at 62% instead of 100% doesn't mean we're somehow shirking some kind of responsibility to "get what's coming to us." Hope that makes sense... :) It would be far worse to make an idol of our suffering, as if that somehow merits anything at all or wins us a few brownie points or jewels in our crown.
Free in the Gospel! (Here's the part where you should tell me to go have some kids and come back when I know something!! :)
Jeni, wow. You have an amazing way with words and explained the Gospel so beautifully! You will be an amazing mother! Really, Im going to copy this and post it somewhere for me to remember!
Rebekah, I loved your point about aspirin...though it's a good thing I'm not completely lost in the law or it may make me swear off aspirin ;)
Lisa, I understood and agreed with most of what you said, but I did find one part troubling, "In general I tend to think it's wiser to just deal with the pain. I find it to be humbling and an important part of the process that God so ordained." I found this troubling because this is not what labor is SUPPOSED to be, that is, it is a curse. It seems you are spiritualizing taking the pain as if by bearing it God will reward us. That is dangerous and takes away from the merit of Christ. Now of course by trusting the Lord to help us through one can be strengthened in faith, but to say it is WISER is not correct because that negates the fact that God grants strengthening of faith/blessings not because of our works or willingness to submit to pain but in face in all sorts of ways. I think the strengthening depends on where one's trust is.
This time around I thought that because I had prayed the Motherhood prayers enough and did my relaxation techniques enough that God would reward me with a smooth labor. Not a wise choice when you're 2 hrs away from a real hospital.
that's "in fact" not "in face" :)
Jeni, may God bless you soon with that life changing experience! :)
Melrose, I agree with your assessment. I said here myself many moons ago that there's something to be personally gained from a natural delivery, but what is gained is surely not merit in the eyes of God. I think women would benefit from giving it a shot, and also I have nothing but sympathy and understanding for those who end up requesting some help. I may yet become one of them.
Melrose:
Here are the three topics as I see them: 1. Epidurals; 2. Pain Management during Labor; 3. “Spiritualizing” suffering during Labor
Epidurals. I don’t think I can be more clear than I have been. I can add this: for thousands of years women have managed pain during labor without epidurals and I find this compelling. I see no shame in being comforted in labor through any method that is established as *sound*. Our family has calculated the risk and not found epidurals so. I do not understand the normalization of this procedure. For us it is there to help me in extreme pain or when a medical intervention is required; that is when I would consider it a blessed tool. If women experience that kind of pain, they and their husband weigh their own options.
I addressed the particularity of your situation and my opinion on it; I think that part was clear. A friend should be there to listen and encourage a woman facing such an important decision. If you need me, I am always here.
Pain Management during Labor: I concur - the goal is to healthily birth a newborn, not get the job done as painfully as possible. There are many methods to cope with the pain. Prayer, the comfort of loved ones/midwife/doula, breathing, positioning, massage, imaging, epidurals, nitrous, tranquilizers, opioids, etc. Some have more risk than others and, with the exception of prayer, some are more case appropriate. I would strongly caution a Christian sister against *some* of those methods because I love her and care for her unborn child. I find this to be neighborly love and not meddling judgment. Statistically epidurals are safer than other chemical methods. That said, that’s still not safe enough for our family in one of my “normal” labors.
“Spiritualizing” suffering during Labor:
Melrose: "It seems you are spiritualizing taking the pain as if by bearing it God will reward us. That is dangerous and takes away from the merit of Christ."
I understand that I am saved by Christ, not myself. I cannot add to what has already been accomplished; I am incapable and it is finished. I hope that puts your mind at ease. The rest of this post probably won’t though.
cont’d..
I’ll reference Starck’s Prayer-book Meditations for Women in Labor, “When the Hour of Delivery is Approaching” and “Comforting Reflections when Delivery is Approaching” (I only commend bc I know you have the book). Starck talks about trusting your attendants. My attendants at both births so far have been Christian women, but even then I’ve weighed their advice. Of course the main attendant is *Jesus Christ*. I assume all of us on this blog who are Christians feel this way. That’s just Eighth Commandment deduction.
What *I* have gained in suffering during my labors is this: sanctification. This is not to negate the same reality for women who labor medicated. God helps us all in particular situations in particular ways. He helps all His children who cry out to Him. None are more deserving. And, if a woman is in such pain that she wishes to have an epidural, I am sure she is drawing on Her Lord mightily in her distress. I say it is *wiser* to labor unmedicated if able, and I do believe *most* women are able for *most* of their labors to do so, because it is a rich experience and if a woman is able, there is so much to gain.
When I go into labor I know that I am about to have a one on one meeting with my Lord face to face. It is terrible, frightening, humbling, awe-ful. This is one of the few times in my life when my body in addition to my mind and heart is ripe for my bridegroom. I meet Him throughout the week at the communion rail, in my kitchen, in friends and even in the midst of meeting enemies, and yet – here I am – humbled beyond defense. I am a naked child alone. Not even my husband can step between me and my Lord. And as I grunt, cry, yelp, and wish that someone would dull my body – here is this sweet whisper in my ear. “I won’t forsake you.” “Lean on me.” “Trust me.” “I have suffered more.” “Cling to me.” “I will make your pain sweet and wipe away your tears.” This all goes on for a few hours. Me saying, “No, please,” and Him saying, “Yes, child. I am with you.” I can understand that for some women it goes on for hours and hours and hours and an intervention would be helpful. But that is way different than cutting this whole meeting short because you *may not* be able to deal with your pain. As Starck points out, Christ Himself is our attendant and resource.
Speaking to women who have had an epidural for the first birth and then gone on to have an unmedicated birth has only strengthened my opinion that a lot of pain women thought was unbearable (in their own estimation) was conquerable (again, in their own estimation, not mine). I take their word for it.
I see nothing questionable about commending this to other women as a beautiful and holy thing. As I said above, I believe *most* women during *most* labors ARE able. And I don’t think this sets you up for any more disappointment than the coach who screams at you, “You can do it!” as you exhaustedly think of stopping before the finish line. Those who need to stop – stop. You have a baby, family and yourself to think of – please take measures to be safe and healthy. Pushing yourself beyond safety and into mindblowing pain is foolish.
Not many women can say they look forward to their sucky, horrible, painful, frightening labors. Yet, I do. Because I will again see my friend face to face when He has made my even my body ready to receive Him in spite of myself. This may sound queer, but it is how it all works out in my life. I can’t tell you different, because this is it.
Note: My husband is at work, but tonight I’ll ask him to read this and if he sees fault in my theology you’ll see an amendment posted shortly. I’m not the best thinker, but I’ve appreciated thinking this through more and more the past few days.
My goodness, Lisa, you are pious. God bless you.
Labor is a holy work, yes (I'm not so sure about beautiful, unless you're speaking philosophically ;) ). Women need very much to know that. But they also need very much to know that it is often felt as something much more horrible than "hard work", and I'm not just talking pain, I'm talking despair. "You can do it" does not just mean "You can push out this baby" (which, although nearly always true standard medical practice notwithstanding, does in fact remain to be seen at the moment of its utterance). It means, "God will save you even from this--there in eternity if not here in time."
As for converts from medicated births to unmedicated--I've never forgotten that the person who recommended Bradley to me used it for her second baby, after her medicated first birth. Oh, what a difference parity makes. :D
So anyway, I don't look forward to labor, should God see fit to grant me another. But I do look forward to the various joys set before us.
R - I suppose that's what is so bizarre. That I can dread and yet welcome the very same thing.
Childbirth isn't the only aspect of my life where this rings true for me.
Lisa - AMEN!!! You have spoken beautifully. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings..... a mirror of my own thoughts and feelings. I couldn't have said it so well!
I too feel that one on one face to face with the Lord which you referred to and He has never let me down. My labors have by no means been quick, simple, easy nor pain free and some have gone on for hours and hours but I am thankful that I experienced each and everyone of them. I have grown as a person and I have learned many things from them. The experience is truly a gift from the Lord.
I am not sure if some of you might be familiar with Dr. Michel Odent a physician in France, maybe not since I am older than most of you. To quote from his book Birth Reborn....
"In his birthing unit he has abrogated power to women. The one thing he will not provide is the kind of help most pregnant women expect nowadays: drugs for pain relief. When a woman books into his unit, there is an implicit contract with him not to have drugs in normal labor, but to receive everything that he can give her to help her work with her body rather than fighting or trying to escape from it." ..."Once the body is interfered with in one way, it becomes necessary to intervene in other ways. And once feeling has been blotted out, forceps would often become necessary. There is an approximately five- times increased risk of having a forceps delivery when a women has had an epidural. The women now actively giving birth would become patients being delivered who have to be turned, examined, nursed before and after delivery - no longer women performing a natural function in healthy activity." ..."There is another element in Michel Odent's thinking that is hard for some of us to accept - his insistence that birth is instinctual and something for which a woman needs no preparation, but on the contrary, must unlearn what her conscious mind has acquired." "Birth like death is a universal experience. It may be the most powerful creative experience in many women's lives. It can either be a disruption in the flow of human existence, a fragment having little or nothing to do with the passionate longing that created the baby, or it can be lived with beauty and dignity, and labor itself can be a celebration of joy."... "He does not offer salvation ..."
"Some women actually seek out an obstetrician with this in mind, transferring onto a powerful authority figure the responsibility for their own bodies and experiences, which they are unwilling to accept. Michel would be the first to say that those who want to be guaranteed complete relief from pain or who want to hand over such responsibility should not come to him." - Sheila Kitizinger
I also ponder the question..... we may choose to take away the pain of the mom but what about the pain of the baby? I always felt that my child was going through just as much pain as I during the birth perhaps more..... he/she has been in a warm comforting environment and then is thrust through the birth process...... however the baby gets no medical relief.
Lisa - your pain management suggestions are wonderful - these are all tools that the Lord has given to us to use. I concur that an epidural is not a choice that we would use because of the safety issue as well for normal labor.
All said I guess birth is a choice..... and we all choose different ways.... they are our choice to make and our responsibility. May the Lord guide your decisions in making the best birth choice for you. Just look at all the options with an open mind, and be informed so that your birth is your choice.
Debbie S.
Is it proper to now cite 1 Tim 2:15? And to borrow a phrase, "this mystery is profound"
15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Debbie, thank you as always for your words of wisdom and experience. We would all be well served to hear from more women like you.
Debbie--
"his insistence that birth is instinctual and something for which a woman needs no preparation, but on the contrary, must unlearn what her conscious mind has acquired."
There's an idea I hadn't thought of...that I need to unlearn what's been pumped into me. But it makes a lot of sense, especially considering how birth is portrayed in the media. It just doesn't look like that normally. I saw one such tv birth recently, and boom--there was the baby, there was the mommy, there was a cord near the baby's belly, but never actually attached in any fashion to the mom and also never detached. And moms, of course, never birth the placenta. And that was just one such media delivery...and how many do women see before their own first?
(I do realize, however, that for some of you, it is just "boom" and the baby's there....but'll I'll bet it's a lot messier than on tv...and I'll bet the cord is there and attached and all. )
1 Tim. 2:15
"Through the childbearer" is what it says in Greek. There is a definite article with the noun. We are saved through Christ who was born of Mary, who is the Child bearer. The One who brings salvation came into the world through a woman. It's pointing back to the promise in Genesis 3 with the Seed of the woman thing.
It's awesome that the Son of God came into the world in the same bloody,painful way that all are born.
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